BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

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    JustSkiff

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by JustSkiff on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:17 am

    Nothing major? ROH just ran traditional live ppv.

    danhere

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:57 am

    I know and it was also a ippv on ustream as well. that is smart since most cable companies might not carry it.
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    CapitalTTruth

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by CapitalTTruth on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:08 am

    If we know the void will be filled, then I am not just what you are getting at with the monopoly stuff. You seem to be saying TNA will or should survive because singular control over wrestling by one company is bad, but at the same time acknowledging that there are other things going on that will ensure that doesn't happen.

    Again, we all get that monopolies are bad. I am sure we all remember the drop off in quality once the E bought all the major competition. But that, in and of itself, will not save TNA, nor should it.


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    danhere

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:24 pm

    the void won't be filled until 2015 by GWF,thats when JJ plan to launch it.
    or until ROH gets out on national tv.
    besides tna has until october, they have at least 6 more taping to cover the contract.
    nothing won't be official prob after bfg or hardcore justice.
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    Spudz

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by Spudz on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:26 pm

    monopoly?? What void?? We are all on the internet..So many ways to watch wrestling through it.. and better wrestling and storylines&angles that make sense

    TNA has never been real competition to WWE.  Jan. 4 2010 was the closest that they were to that and they fail to keep those viewers because of either the people saw if was going be  mostly the same old same old shit or/and cause TNA weren't smart to tell people "Watch us on Thursdays"

    TNA has been the place people go to cause
    1. WWE don't want them cause they are addicts who refuse to get help.

    2. Some need a vacation from the WWE schedule.

    3. WWE won't use them any more.

    4. People thought being loyal to TNA, would mean TNA would be loyal to them and get them to better places/ People that believe it was a good idea to waste their prime money years in the company to be use so bad WWE won't even touch them now cause they are older and have TNA stink on them, WWE rather invest in younger talent that are just as good as them that branch out to different places.
    5. People, who want say they wrestle on tv.

    That all TNA been, They never been WCW.. The only thing they have are the internatinal tv deals that you can be impress with but they don't have the ppv buy rates, they don't have the crowds.

    They never had a real identity. They have chosen to be WCW 2,ECW 2 for all these years instead of being TNA 1.

    It might take time but other companies will rise and reach where TNA been and be smart enough not to make the same mistakes that TNA have done.
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    CapitalTTruth

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by CapitalTTruth on Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:17 pm

    The point about the internet and the way wrestling is mediated is a good one. There are TONS of alternatives for wrestling fans right now. Though, I do think a semi-major American promotion is important. As spudz points out, TNA barely maintains that space now (if they really do anymore). Having an easily accessible place for fans to turn other than the E, a place for talent to turn when the E gets to crowded, and something to push the E (which we really haven't had since WCW) creatively.... all these things make wrestling better.

    I just don't get the fear of TNA closing or the point about the danger being made. TNA doesn't really provide much right now and if it falls, space opens up for promotions to grow or enter the market (dwindling as it may be right now).


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    SBR

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by SBR on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:35 pm

    From this weeks WO:

    TNA finds itself at a crossroads with its television contract with Spike TV set to expire in two months and not only is no deal in place, but at a meeting over the past two weeks, Dixie Carter was told that they are not interested in renewing the deal. The story was related by multiple sources, in a story reported in numerous places this past week, most notably TMZ.

    One person with knowledge of the situation said Spike wanted to make things as amenable as possible. The tact is the opposite of what happened when Spike did the same thing with WWE in 2005, which left bitter feelings on the WWE side because it left them with no negotiating leverage and they had to take a much weaker deal with USA. It should be noted that Spike expected WWE to end up with USA in those 2005 talks, but they publicly canceled Raw and all the satellite shows, before the USA deal was completed. This left WWE with no negotiating leverage. WWE had to take a deal that gave them no satellite shows and took away the company’s advertising revenue from its programming, or thus being worth significantly less than the deal they had with Spike.

    Spike will not publicly talk about the deal nor make statements that would hurt TNA’s leverage. The public story is that Viacom has a policy of not taking about ongoing negotiations. But if TNA can get a new television deal, it was said Spike was willing to work the transition as smoothly as possible. There is not a specific date where Spike would pull the programming even though the actual contract expires in two months.

    Some are speculating that telling Carter they aren’t renewing the deal is simply a hardball negotiating ploy, as was not making any deal this late in the game. With the contract expiring in two months and most major stations having already filled up their fall prime time programming schedules, TNA is down to very little negotiating leverage unless UTA, who was handling the negotiations, has a backup deal in place. Those in the television industry do not believe that to be the case.

    The idea is that Spike is still willing to keep the show, but wants to cut down on the licensing fee number, or even the speculation that Spike wants to own its own wrestling promotion, is at this point nothing more than optimistic speculation, but neither is impossible.

    Spike does own its MMA property, Bellator. The positive is that it eliminates these types of negotiations in the future. It guarantees Spike that if the promotion got hot that it would either risk losing them to a rival station or having to pay far more money to keep them. Spike is of the belief that they built UFC into a significant sports franchise and then lost what they built when networks with more money became interested, and thus doesn’t want to go through that again. Owning allows Spike to avoid any issues if new content providers emerge either in or out of television, and guards against programming cost increases.

    While there have been rumors of the latter within TNA for some time, the idea of Spike interested in controlling interest, there is nothing even to the extent of smoke that we can find in that direction past rumors within TNA. We have no knowledge of anyone in wrestling who would have been contacted by Spike if they were talking in that direction.

    Right after the TMZ story came out, Dixie Carter contacted us in an e-mail saying that no deal was in place but negotiations were continuing. After the story came out, TNA sent out an e-mail to talent stating that no deal was in place but stating they hope to have good news announced shortly. Talent in TNA were given the impression that news would be announced at the New York tapings in early August, even before the story had come out, and were again told not to believe the story. A number of sources connected to both TNA and Spike were talking about this for days before the TMZ story.

    In television, there is a lack of interest in wrestling due to the inability to get substantial revenue for advertising, no matter what ratings it delivers.

    Talent and those in the TNA office had been constantly assured negotiations with Spike were going strongly due to the obvious nervousness of many due to no announcement being made.

    Of course, TNA did a similar e-mail to talent when the stories of its sale negotiations last year broke, with Janice Carter stating that there were no talks and the stories weren’t true. Those with knowledge of the talks called the e-mail an outright lie. It was well known representatives of Toby Keith were at the TNA offices talking with personnel about working with them, and talks got serious enough that Bob Carter flew to Keith’s home in Norman, OK, to close the deal. The deal fell apart as the sides didn’t come to a money agreement, although the figures were said to be very close and that wasn’t the obstacle, but also because Carter insisted that Dixie Carter would have to be able to save face and be guaranteed a public position that would appear she was still in some form of control of the new company. That killed the deal. This led to Jeff Jarrett, who was to be one of the key people running the new group, starting Global Force Wrestling. Jarrett resigned from TNA late last year after the deal fell through, but has still not been able to sign a TV deal, and has publicly confirmed he and Keith were in talks to buy TNA and when they fell through, it led to his leaving and starting his own group.

    In April, TNA inked a deal with UTA to represent them in television negotiations. That was the first sign that they were nervous about a new deal, because in the past they’ve been able to sign new deals without having to make a deal to give an outside company a significant cut as its negotiator.

    According to various sources, there were two key reasons for Spike saying they wouldn’t renew. The obvious one was that they didn’t believe the product was cost effective for what they were paying for it, in that they could make more money in ad sales for programming that would be less expensive, even if it wouldn’t draw as many viewers. People surprised that a station would drop a higher than its average rated prime time show miss the point that in both of the key methods of garnering revenue for a station, ads and carriage fees, wrestling programming at the TNA level is not all that valuable.

    If this was the prime reason, it would keep the door open to a deal for less money. The value of programming is actually threefold, a combination of value in selling ads, carriage fees and boosting the network profile and average numbers. Wrestling has traditionally had a problem when it comes to selling ads, always having to sell as a far lower cost per viewer as most programming. If Spike were to cancel Impact, it would not make a difference in cable carriage fees. Impact did 1.42 million viewers on 7/24. Spike’s prime time average for this past week was 822,000 viewers. That average would have dropped to 759,000 viewers without Impact, but either number would rank it No. 19 among cable stations. But it does have value in that regard.

    The second was Spike was outright lied to about Vince Russo not working for the company. That’s why TNA was in such a panic when Russo’s e-mail accidentally was sent to Mike Johnson, because they had denied Russo was working there after Spike had made it clear a long time ago they didn’t want him involved. TNA had evidently figured if they didn’t tell anyone, that nobody would know. Even though people did know, there was no tangible proof until Russo’s accident put TNA in a position where they couldn’t deny it any longer. With negotiations already tenuous, this was a disaster. Why TNA continued to use Russo in creative when Spike made it clear they wanted no involvement with him is a question that nobody has come close to being able to answer.

    On 7/30, Russo on Twitter claimed he was no longer with TNA.

    “Officially done with TNA,” he wrote. “Today they `suggested’ a break. I declined. Finality was better for me.”

    Hours earlier, Taz had written, “I unfollowed Russo earlier. He’s annoying and all about his brand. #Go Away.”

    Those in the company thought that Bobby Lashley fighting in Bellator, a property owned by Spike, represented a positive in negotiations, since TNA would promote the Bellator show. But the fight is on 9/5, several weeks before the deal expires. Nothing has been said how that is impacted by the negotiations.

    But even if they were to stay at a greatly reduced rate, that would be a major financial issue. Spike money was the company’s biggest revenue stream, and the company has had serious financial issues including periods where people were paid months late, although everyone did eventually get paid. But costs have been cut greatly.

    Recently, many of the production people, who were months behind in being paid, threatened to walk en masse on the first day of a multiple day taping, forcing Dixie Carter to write checks catching them all up. TNA has also been forced to either greatly cut back on new deals, or outright not sign talent, losing Hulk Hogan, Sting, A.J. Styles, Chris Sabin, Christopher Daniels and Frankie Kazarian in recent months.

    Within TNA, it was noted to us that while many bought the e-mail, others, given he outright distrust on the Russo situation and those who were aware of the sale situation and how it was handled, didn’t buy it at all. It was noted that the company should have told talent, whether true or not, that even if the TV deal doesn’t get renewed, because at this late a date, that’s obviously a possibility, that the company would continue because of international commitments. They said the lack of saying that was a red flag. In addition, the e-mail and statements, by not saying that, have only bought the company two weeks of reprieve before panic will set in. The assurances were made that something positive would be announced to everyone at the next set of tapings, so it’s a time frame they need to have news by.

    The Hogan loss, while not seeming as big at the time, is now significant.

    One source with significant TV ties checked around with stations and said he found no real interest in the product among other stations. He stated that losing Hogan hurt a lot because he was the one guy that executives at stations who are in charge of negotiating these deals would have heard of. Having Hogan would at least get you in the door to make a pitch, and a video of Hogan or Hogan at a meeting could impress people. Hogan is not a deal maker himself, as shown by the lack of major outside licensing deals the company was able to make in Hogan’s four years, but Hogan is a door opener.

    Another bad sign for making an outside deal, particularly one that pays anything of note, is the plight of WWE over the past year.

    During that period, WWE had two shows, Saturday Morning Slam and Main Event, canceled by CW and Ion respectively.

    In both cases, ratings were above what the stations were doing in those time slots. Main Event was doing numbers slightly better on average than TNA. The two shows were generally both in the same range, but most weeks Main Event was viewed by more, although that’s because Ion is in more homes than Spike. Main Event drew numbers above Ion’s prime time average for a Wednesday night airing, particularly in the 18-49 demo. Slam, in an early Saturday Morning slot, was doing viewer numbers slightly lower than Impact. In both cases, when the shows were canceled, WWE, the No. 1 promotion in the world, was unable to get a new distributor.

    In addition, WWE had planned to sell NXT in the U.S. market, but found no interest in the marketplace. And WWE was believed to have been getting less for Main Event, even factoring in that it’s one hour vs. two hours, than TNA was getting for Impact. And given that Main Event (and Saturday Morning Slam) are far cheaper to produce, because the crew is already there to tape Smackdown, they could afford significantly less in licensing than TNA could to make it cost effective, and still couldn’t make a deal. Similarly, WWE was already taping NXT to begin with for both international distribution and for talent experience, so any television deal would be added money since the costs of production are being spent either way, and they still couldn’t get a deal.

    Today, the only way a promotion can survive at anything past the grassroots level is to have significant television money coming in. One promoter noted to us that if you could draw 1,000 fans paid at every house show for a regular schedule and keep costs of talent low, you could make it, but “those days are long gone.”

    The key here is not if TNA can maintain television. They can always buy their way onto a station, like they did years back with Fox Sports Network. But history has shown that’s a money-losing proposition, because in this day and age, a promotion, whether it be pro wrestling or MMA, can only make it on a national basis with significant television revenue. House shows are not going to draw enough, there are no significant licensing deals unless you are WWE, and PPV is dead for everyone but the top-tier boxers and UFC. TNA killed its PPV business and WWE undercut the value of the pro wrestling shows on PPV by moving to the network model.

    TNA had pulled out of its paid programming deal with Fox Sports Network in 2005 because money losses were too high. At the time, the company had lost television except for a sports channel in Florida, and would not have survived, but timing was everything. When Spike and WWE had a falling out, Spike was interested in giving them a try, and TNA did strong enough numbers in the late Saturday night time slot that Spike was bullish on its potential for growth. But in recent years, after bringing in a number of the biggest stars, from the old stars of WCW, to Angle and Sting, to Hogan, Ric Flair and Jeff Hardy, failed to move numbers significantly, the feelings of growth potential changed. Spike cut the replay airing of Impact, and also gave up on a third hour show that Eric Bischoff and Jason Hervey produced.

    The problem is, you take a company struggling and remove its leading revenue stream, and they will either have to cut back significantly, or they are going to have to give up. Even a best case scenario looks to be losses of jobs in the industry. TNA had cut back greatly on talent, both numbers and cutting back to using lower paid talent, even before these negotiations started.

    TNA had already stripped themselves of those stars, in particular Hulk Hogan, Sting, and to a lesser extent A.J. Styles. At press time, only two members of the current roster fit into that category of major names, Kurt Angle, whose contracts expires within weeks of the TNA deal expiring, making him a free agent at that point and he’s made it clear he’s looking elsewhere, and Jeff Hardy. A few others are believed to still have solid money contracts based on signing multi-year deals before the company started heavily cutting back on costs.

    The loss, or even the survival with great cutbacks, of TNA, would be devastating to the industry. New Japan is already having trouble keeping the foreign crew it has working steadily. ROH has no openings for talent, although we have the impression that Samoa Joe and Eddie Edwards would likely get some dates, but in the case of Joe, he’s used to making a lot more money. But those in ROH say they already have more talent than they can adequately use and for the most part, there are no openings. Few guys in TNA mean much on the independent scene. There will be a vacancy for a No. 2 group if TNA loses Spike and can’t get a paying outlet, or even if they stay on with a greatly reduced budget.

    It’s clear Sinclair Broadcasting has little interest in ramping up ROH. So for the industry to not take a hit, it comes down to Global Force Wrestling getting off the ground with significant financing and a strong television deal, or the El Rey Network, with AAA scheduled to start as a weekly series in the fall, becoming a viable channel on the U.S. scene.


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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:04 pm

    good post about tna, I don't think hogan helped tna he is over the hill with broken bones unable to wrestle.in fact I think hurt TNA, first by moving tna from thursdays to mondays (big mistake) then getting rid of the 6 sided ring which was tna's signature.
    having the news leaved about tna contract with spike might have hurt negotiations and any leverage between the two.
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    Swarles
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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by Swarles on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:11 pm

    I don't want to live in a world where AAA is the #2 promotion.


    The PhenomenalBullyOne

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by The PhenomenalBullyOne on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:57 pm

    20:55:53
    Swarles wrote:I don't want to live in a world where AAA is the #2 promotion.

    whats wrong with AAA? Plus next year Global force wrestling is coming apparently so that might fiiled the void. But I do hope TNA get's picked up by someone.

    danhere

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:32 pm

    the void isn't that bad if tna leaves I actually enjoy watching the old clips of GWF on espncl
    and even the old AWA shows also espncl.

    question does espn pay vince to show GWF and AWA on their network since wwe owns both libraries but they are still showed on different own station (espn is owned abc/disney)
    if wwe buys the TNA library it would be cool to have the older shows on espncl like GWF and AWA.
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    Spudz

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by Spudz on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:10 pm

    ESPN classics can air the old GWF and AWA shows cause they originally aired on ESPN back in the day.

    danhere

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:17 pm

    how does effect the library that wwe has. I know wwe network also shows the old shows as well
    there has to be some conflict between the two about it.
    if wwe was able to sell viewing rights of non wwe/wwf shows to espncl it would be great
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    RFSKannon

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by RFSKannon on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:37 pm

    danhere wrote:how does effect the library that wwe has. I know wwe network also shows the old shows as well
    there has to be some conflict between the two about it.
    if wwe was able to sell viewing rights of non wwe/wwf shows to espncl it would be great

    WWE can't air the Global shows because they don't own that film library, the AWA shows (footage) are owned by ESPN outright.
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    Spudz

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by Spudz on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:40 pm

    danhere wrote:how does effect the library that wwe has. I know wwe network also shows the old shows as well
    there has to be some conflict between the two about it.
    if wwe was able to sell viewing rights of non wwe/wwf shows to espncl it would be great
    Don't think WWE can do anything about ESPN rebroadcasting old shows they orginallly broadcasted.. It doesn't effect the WWE library at all..WWE can use the AWA library how ever they like.

    danhere

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by danhere on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:47 pm

    if thats the case fox sports can prob re-air the fox sports net era of tna since they were shown on that first
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    RFSKannon

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    Re: BREAKING: Spike NOT re-newing Impact Wrestling? Possibly canceled

    Post by RFSKannon on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:29 am

    danhere wrote:if thats the case fox sports can prob re-air the fox sports net era of tna since they were shown on that first

    No. That was a different deal entirely. They bought airtime on the network, not a contracted time slot.

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