I Hate Marvel

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    Xero

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    I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:42 pm

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    GolfClubNinja

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by GolfClubNinja on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:25 pm

    i can get why they would want to, but they could not have used one of the MANY female norse legends.

    And they don't have to make a new captain america, More falcon comics would be enough.

    DC anyone?


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    RFSKannon

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by RFSKannon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:28 pm

    Um... There has already been a black Captain America... As far as Thor goes, it's only going to be for a brief time and it's a female taking Thor's place. Not Thor becoming a woman.
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    SBR

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by SBR on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:41 pm

    Don't read the books, just watch the movies.


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    Xero

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 pm

    RFSKannon wrote:Um...  There has already been a black Captain America...   As far as Thor goes, it's only going to be for a brief time and it's a female taking Thor's place.  Not Thor becoming a woman.

    I probably wouldn't mind either of these if they happened by themselves, but this seems politically motivated.
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    RFSKannon

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by RFSKannon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:01 pm

    Politically? No, not really. It's just Marvel trying to recreate it's image as being culturally diverse and have gender equality. Granted most attempts blow up in their face.
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    Xero

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:05 pm

    RFSKannon wrote:Politically?  No, not really.  It's just Marvel trying to recreate it's image as being culturally diverse and have gender equality.  Granted most attempts blow up in their face.
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    2kNikk

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:06 pm

    HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.


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    Xero

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:11 pm

    2kNikk wrote:HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.

    Probably one of the X-Men comics I had as a kid, but what difference does that make?  That's like saying men can't talk about abortions because they don't pop out babies.

    So let me get this straight, you're actually defending a company basically going "OH hey guys, we don't have enough black people and women featured in our comic books.  I KNOW, lets take two of our most popular marquee names turn one into a female and the other into an African American!"

    I feel like they would've been far better served by just creating new characters, and it's likely there would've been far less backlash.  Some fans can get pretty emotionally involved with these characters, and when you alter them so drastically in the name of political correctness, there's bound to be some backlash.  Marvel should've seen this coming.
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    2kNikk

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:20 pm

    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.

    Probably one of the X-Men comics I had as a kid, but what difference does that make?  That's like saying men can't talk about abortions because they don't pop out babies.

    So let me get this straight, you're actually defending a company basically going "OH hey guys, we don't have enough black people and women featured in our comic books.  I KNOW, lets take two of our most popular marquee names turn one into a female and the other into an African American!"

    I feel like they would've been far better served by just creating new characters, and it's likely there would've been far less backlash.  Some fans can get pretty emotionally involved with these characters, and when you alter them so drastically in the name of political correctness, there's bound to be some backlash.  Marvel should've seen this coming.

    You have no ethos, you have no logos. When only pathos remains fallacies take root.

    We'll see in sales numbers if this backlash you speak of is real or internet bullshit. Because most comic fans that actually read comics instead of only jump on shit like this to sound like an asshole who doesn't want blacks or females as leads don't care about the change and actually embrace Falcon as Cap and are willing to see what becomes of FemThor.

    You want to see real comic fan outrage: One More Day.
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    2kNikk

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:24 pm

    Also remember last time Marvel made a change to an Icon, Miles replacing Peter...

    led to a best seller this April. And 2nd in May...so yeah f right off with this, people said the same shit about Mexican Spider Man.

    EDIT: Second for June too. Such backlash, what a mistake, Marvel is doomed!

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    RFSKannon

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by RFSKannon on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:27 pm

    2kNikk wrote:Also remember last time Marvel made a change to an Icon, Miles replacing Peter...

    led to a best seller this April. And 2nd in May...so yeah f right off with this, people said the same shit about Mexican Spider Man.

    Not really, given that was Ultimate Spider-Man and not regular continuity. They do things like that all the time with the Ultimate brand. Black Nick Fury ring a bell?
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    2kNikk

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:41 pm

    RFSKannon wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:Also remember last time Marvel made a change to an Icon, Miles replacing Peter...

    led to a best seller this April. And 2nd in May...so yeah f right off with this, people said the same shit about Mexican Spider Man.

     Not really, given that was Ultimate Spider-Man and not regular continuity.  They do things like that all the time with the Ultimate brand.  Black Nick Fury ring a bell?

    Black Nick Fury is a great example because that seeped into the Movie Universe, arguably there biggest brand.

    My point is let it play out. Could it be a mistake? Yeah. But that won't be because Thor's got boobs or because of Captain Falcon. It'll be due to the writing.

    Also, a thing on the Thor bit... marvel Thor is Thor possessing a human. Thus FemThor is a new character, kind of.

    QUICK EDIT: It was a huge sales jump for an Ultimate series from 4k sales in March to sustaining 100k the last 3 months. Change is good. Change is your friend. Accept the change. Very Happy


    Last edited by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Xero

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:42 pm

    2kNikk wrote:
    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.

    Probably one of the X-Men comics I had as a kid, but what difference does that make?  That's like saying men can't talk about abortions because they don't pop out babies.

    So let me get this straight, you're actually defending a company basically going "OH hey guys, we don't have enough black people and women featured in our comic books.  I KNOW, lets take two of our most popular marquee names turn one into a female and the other into an African American!"

    I feel like they would've been far better served by just creating new characters, and it's likely there would've been far less backlash.  Some fans can get pretty emotionally involved with these characters, and when you alter them so drastically in the name of political correctness, there's bound to be some backlash.  Marvel should've seen this coming.

    1) You have no ethos, you have no logos. When only pathos remains fallacies take root.



    2) We'll see in sales numbers if this backlash you speak of is real or internet bullshit. Because most comic fans that actually read comics instead of only jump on shit like this to sound like an asshole who doesn't want blacks or females as leads don't care about the change and actually embrace Falcon as Cap and are willing to see what becomes of FemThor.

    You want to see real comic fan outrage: One More Day.

    Ok, first of all, the guy who is calling me an asshole just for having a different opinion and who thinks I can't comment on comics because I don't read them is accusing me of arguing from emotion.  Secondly, literally all I am trying to say is this is clearly pandering and political correctness which at least RFSKannon agreed with me on back on Post #6 whether he realizes it or not.

    Number two, backlash is defined by google as "a strong and adverse reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development."  Are you seriously trying to argue that there aren't a large number of people who are upset over this?


    I don't care about sales figures or even whether or not the same people who are angry will eventually grow to accept these characters.  It's kind of like the point I was attempting to make with Roman Reigns earlier. While, I don't read comics anymore, if I was a comics fan, I may be open to the characters themselves and interested in where Marvel takes them, I still see this as pandering.  Pandering isn't a good thing.
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    2kNikk

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by 2kNikk on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:48 pm

    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:
    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.

    Probably one of the X-Men comics I had as a kid, but what difference does that make?  That's like saying men can't talk about abortions because they don't pop out babies.

    So let me get this straight, you're actually defending a company basically going "OH hey guys, we don't have enough black people and women featured in our comic books.  I KNOW, lets take two of our most popular marquee names turn one into a female and the other into an African American!"

    I feel like they would've been far better served by just creating new characters, and it's likely there would've been far less backlash.  Some fans can get pretty emotionally involved with these characters, and when you alter them so drastically in the name of political correctness, there's bound to be some backlash.  Marvel should've seen this coming.

    1) You have no ethos, you have no logos. When only pathos remains fallacies take root.



    2) We'll see in sales numbers if this backlash you speak of is real or internet bullshit. Because most comic fans that actually read comics instead of only jump on shit like this to sound like an asshole who doesn't want blacks or females as leads don't care about the change and actually embrace Falcon as Cap and are willing to see what becomes of FemThor.

    You want to see real comic fan outrage: One More Day.

    Ok, first of all, the guy who is calling me an asshole just for having a different opinion and who thinks I can't comment on comics because I don't read them is accusing me of arguing from emotion.  Secondly, literally all I am trying to say is this is clearly pandering and political correctness which at least RFSKannon agreed with me on back on Post #6 whether he realizes it or not.

    Number two, backlash is defined by google as "a strong and adverse reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development."  Are you seriously trying to argue that there aren't a large number of people who are upset over this?


    I don't care about sales figures or even whether or not the same people who are angry will eventually grow to accept these characters.  It's kind of like the point I was attempting to make with Roman Reigns earlier. While, I don't read comics anymore, if I was a comics fan, I may be open to the characters themselves and interested in where Marvel takes them, I still see this as pandering.  Pandering isn't a good thing.

    Not calling you an asshole as I don't think you've come out and said you dont want black/fem leads. I've seen that on other sites. Sorry if it came across that way.

    I see it more as marketing. Look! It's different! It's new! (Although one could argue Norse Gods gender swapping is hardly new, but I digress) And, best of all, it's a tanking series that no one cares about. Just like Ultimate Spidey was.

    Also the world needs more strong female leads. A lot more.

    EDIT: As for you backlash definition: "a large number of people". I think this is the loud minority. I think as Ultimate Spidey proved the silent 96,000 embrace change. So no, I don't think this is a true backlash, this is a media spin to get views by creating a race/sex issue.
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    Xero

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by Xero on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:59 pm

    2kNikk wrote:
    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:
    Xero wrote:
    2kNikk wrote:HOW DARE A COMIC COMPANY CHANGE THE FACE OF THERE LEADING ICONS NEVER BEFORE HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED!

    Also ... good. Thor sucks. Maybe female Thor will be entertaining.

    Also DC had Dick Grayson (Age 12) as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin, Supergirl, Batgirl, a female Flash (albeit short), and just recently hinted at a female Green Lantern.

    Also name the last Marvel comic story you enjoyed.

    Probably one of the X-Men comics I had as a kid, but what difference does that make?  That's like saying men can't talk about abortions because they don't pop out babies.

    So let me get this straight, you're actually defending a company basically going "OH hey guys, we don't have enough black people and women featured in our comic books.  I KNOW, lets take two of our most popular marquee names turn one into a female and the other into an African American!"

    I feel like they would've been far better served by just creating new characters, and it's likely there would've been far less backlash.  Some fans can get pretty emotionally involved with these characters, and when you alter them so drastically in the name of political correctness, there's bound to be some backlash.  Marvel should've seen this coming.

    1) You have no ethos, you have no logos. When only pathos remains fallacies take root.



    2) We'll see in sales numbers if this backlash you speak of is real or internet bullshit. Because most comic fans that actually read comics instead of only jump on shit like this to sound like an asshole who doesn't want blacks or females as leads don't care about the change and actually embrace Falcon as Cap and are willing to see what becomes of FemThor.

    You want to see real comic fan outrage: One More Day.

    Ok, first of all, the guy who is calling me an asshole just for having a different opinion and who thinks I can't comment on comics because I don't read them is accusing me of arguing from emotion.  Secondly, literally all I am trying to say is this is clearly pandering and political correctness which at least RFSKannon agreed with me on back on Post #6 whether he realizes it or not.

    Number two, backlash is defined by google as "a strong and adverse reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development."  Are you seriously trying to argue that there aren't a large number of people who are upset over this?


    I don't care about sales figures or even whether or not the same people who are angry will eventually grow to accept these characters.  It's kind of like the point I was attempting to make with Roman Reigns earlier. While, I don't read comics anymore, if I was a comics fan, I may be open to the characters themselves and interested in where Marvel takes them, I still see this as pandering.  Pandering isn't a good thing.

    Not calling you an asshole as I don't think you've come out and said you dont want black/fem leads. I've seen that on other sites. Sorry if it came across that way.

    I see it more as marketing. Look! It's different! It's new! (Although one could argue Norse Gods gender swapping is hardly new, but I digress) And, best of all, it's a tanking series that no one cares about. Just like Ultimate Spidey was.

    Also the world needs more strong female leads. A lot more.

    EDIT: As for you backlash definition: "a large number of people". I think this is the loud minority. I think as Ultimate Spidey proved the silent 96,000 embrace change. So no, I don't think this is a true backlash, this is a media spin to get views by creating a race/sex issue.

    Fair enough
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    WWF Attitude

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    Re: I Hate Marvel

    Post by WWF Attitude on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:01 am

    going to throw this out there as a huge comic nerd.

    Falcon has been Captain America twice already, this will not stick. Steve Rogers is Captain America, even though he has been replaced over and over again, he will be back probably by time the next movie comes out.

    Thor being a woman, much like Loki being a woman, will not last and will be changed by time the next movie comes out.

    All and all there is plenty of diversity in comics. someone brought up the possibility of a female Green Lantern. There are literally millions of Green Lanterns and a lot of them are women...mostly because Green Lanterns range from humans to aliens that look like Fish or Planets but still.

    Also I'd rather have these type of changes in Marvel, instead of what DC does. Resetting the universe but not completely so that continuity is totally fucked and none of the characters or stories make sense.


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